The Brandformance Podcast • Ep 58

7 marketing measurement myths costing companies millions

With

With

In this episode of Brandformance's marketing-science segment, co-hosts Pranav Piyush (Paramark) and Sundar Swaminathan (ex-Uber, creator of ExperiMENTAL) run through the myths and limiting beliefs that quietly stop teams from measuring well. They make the case that testing needs neither a big budget nor fancy tools — turning one channel down is a real experiment — and that the hard part is a leader willing to feel the pain. They reframe “is this channel incremental?” (it's your execution that isn't, not the channel), explain why MMM and attribution are meant to disagree, and why variance matters more than years of data. They close on MMM as a forecasting tool rather than a crystal ball, measurement as an ongoing muscle, and why brand is a painkiller that decays — not a vitamin that compounds for free.

Episode details

Transcript

This is the marketing-science leg of Brandformance, co-hosted by Pranav Piyush and Sundar Swaminathan. Every two weeks they break down the concepts behind modern marketing measurement — incrementality, marketing mix modeling, brand versus performance — in plain, practical terms, and bust a few myths along the way.

Pranav Piyush is the co-founder and CEO of Paramark, where he’s building modern marketing measurement — incrementality testing and marketing mix modeling — for growth teams. A long-time marketing leader, he hosts Brandformance.

Sundar Swaminathan is a marketing data science and experimentation advisor to consumer-tech scaleups and the creator of the ExperiMENTAL newsletter and podcast. He previously built and led brand data science at Uber — measuring over a billion dollars of brand spend — and earlier worked on the debt desk at the US Treasury.

The gist

  • Most marketing-measurement “rules” are limiting beliefs — they’re the reason teams don’t experiment, not statements of fact.

  • You don’t need a big budget or fancy tools to test. Turning one channel down is a real pre/post experiment; SQL and a spreadsheet go a long way.

  • A channel is never “not incremental.” Your execution on it isn’t — yet. Reframe the question accordingly.

  • MMM, attribution and incrementality aren’t competing for “right.” They’re different lenses you triangulate to be “less wrong.”

  • Measurement is a muscle, not a finish line — and brand decays, so treat it as a painkiller you keep taking, not a vitamin.

Testing isn’t for big budgets or fancy tools

The biggest limiting belief, Sundar argues, is that experimentation requires scale, budget and complicated tooling. Humans are natural experimenters — an ancestor tasting an unfamiliar plant ran a sample-size-of-one test and updated instantly. If 75–80% of companies have one dominant channel (often Meta), turning it down and watching the trend line is, by definition, a pre/post experiment. You might land on “cut to 50%” when the true answer was 42% — but going from 100% to 50% is the win. For most of his career Sundar has gotten far on SQL and Google Sheets; if you’re hiding behind complicated tools, that’s the tell.

Pranav adds the real unlock: courage. He points to a startup selling to local governments — run radio in seven counties and measure the lift — and to True Classic publicly zeroing out spend every few months and rebuilding it. Sundar’s blunt version: a leader’s willingness to feel the pain is about 80% of why experimentation does or doesn’t happen. If you believe Meta is incremental but you’re too scared to turn it off and prove it, that’s a red flag about your culture, not your math.

Incrementality is bigger than holdouts

A head of growth told Pranav that incrementality testing didn’t fit a scale-fast mode — because he equated it with holdouts. But you can do the opposite: a pulse-up in the specific geographies your model recommends. You can test budget levels, creative, a new channel, or new bidding logic. As Sundar puts it, incrementality testing is just a subset of A/B testing — all “A and B” means is that the two aren’t the same.

The trap is all-or-nothing: if you can’t run the extreme holdout, you run nothing — even though you’d never treat email or product that way. The caveat for marketing is that signals are noisier, so your pulse-ups need to be meaningful — not a 1% nudge but more like 10–20% — because the line items are bigger.

A channel is never the thing that “doesn’t work”

“Is TikTok incremental?” is the wrong question, and so is treating a flat test as proof a channel is dead. With platforms that have a billion-plus users, your audience is there; the honest conclusion isn’t “the channel isn’t incremental” but “our efforts on this channel aren’t incremental — yet.” Getting it right means stacking variables: the creative, the audience, the frequency, a long enough window to catch people ready to buy — on top of macro and competition.

Sundar’s line: it’s impossible for a channel to not work; it’s very possible for it not to work for you. Even a consumer brand can crack LinkedIn with the right angle — Pranav’s example is the Rolex ads that kept showing up in his LinkedIn feed. If a channel isn’t working, you haven’t found the alpha in it.

MMM vs. MTA: triangulation, not a contest

The belief that MMM and MTA disagreeing means one is wrong assumes both are supposed to be perfect. They’re not. MTA tracks only digital touchpoints you can see; MMM includes offline channels, brand and halo effects — so comparing them is apples to oranges, and the disagreement is the point. Both are models you configure and feed; each returns its own version of reality.

Pranav’s analogy: a model airplane and a real airplane. A model reflects reality but is wrong in fundamental ways because it can’t hold every variable — and in marketing you can never see inside someone’s head. The answer is triangulation: MMM plus an attribution model plus incrementality testing, working together. No single piece is right; their job isn’t to be right, it’s to make you, in Sundar’s phrase, “less wrong.”

More data isn’t better — variance is

There’s no magic threshold of years or touchpoints for an MMM. What actually feeds a model is variance and volatility — spend moving up and down so the model has something to learn from; a flat spend line gives it nothing. Relevance and recency matter too: five years of data is useless if three of them predate who you are now.

Pranav’s team aims for about two years — enough to capture seasonality and hit a reasonable confidence level — but he’ll happily start a hypergrowth brand at six months if they accept wider uncertainty, because starting now beats waiting and running on pure gut. The bonus Sundar highlights: starting early also builds the organizational muscle of reading and acting on an MMM, which matters as much as the model itself.

An MMM forecasts — it doesn’t predict (and you’re never done)

An accurate MMM won’t tell you exactly where to spend your next dollar and mint money. It’s a forecasting tool, not a prediction machine — useful when the forecast period resembles the recent past, shakier in hypergrowth or disrupted categories, and only as good as the assumptions you document. Better to run three two-month forecasts with pulse-ups than one blind six-month bet.

And measurement is never “in the bank.” Marketing runs on curves: incrementality at $5M of spend isn’t incrementality at $10M, even holding everything else constant, because you slide to a less efficient part of the curve. The best teams re-run incrementality roughly every six months and recalibrate MMMs at least quarterly. It’s a muscle — what was incremental six months ago is often arbitraged away — which is why Pranav floats the idea of an “incrementality manager” whose job is to keep the team putting in the reps.

Brand decays: a painkiller, not a vitamin

Both hosts reject “brand compounds” as a free lunch. Pranav’s framing: brand is a garden, not a savings account — stop watering and it dies. Sundar wants to retire the “vitamin” framing entirely and call brand a painkiller: it prevents CAC from skyrocketing as you push for more volume, which is the language a CFO actually responds to.

His proof is a UK brand-lift study at Uber: awareness rose from ~50 to ~65 during a campaign, the budget was cut mid-flight, and within two to four weeks awareness was back to 50 — as if the campaign never happened. The half-life of brand is brutal. It does compound in one sense — show up consistently and people form associations faster, and you get better at it over time — but it decays just as surely, so the job is to keep investing, not to bank it.

Quote snacks

  • “It’s impossible for a channel to not work. It’s very possible for it not to work for you.” — Sundar

  • “If a channel doesn’t work, it’s because you haven’t found the alpha in it.” — Sundar

  • “Let’s learn to be a little less wrong, instead of trying to be more right.” — Sundar

  • “An MMM is a forecasting tool, not a prediction tool.” — Pranav

  • “Every scaled marketing team should have an incrementality manager.” — Pranav

  • “Stop treating brand as a vitamin and start treating it as a painkiller.” — Sundar

Why it matters

Almost every barrier the hosts name is psychological, not technical — a limiting belief that gives teams permission not to experiment. Naming them is the unlock: testing is cheap, channels aren’t verdicts, models aren’t oracles, and “done” isn’t a state measurement ever reaches.

It also reframes the brand-versus-performance debate the show keeps circling. Measured honestly, brand is a CAC painkiller with a short half-life, and performance is a curve that shifts as you scale — both demand continuous, triangulated measurement rather than a one-time answer. The throughline: be willing to feel the pain, measure to be less wrong, and keep putting in the reps.

Practical next steps

Run the simplest test you can. Turn one channel down — ideally in a few geos — and read the trend line. Don’t wait for budget or tooling.

Reframe the channel question. Instead of “is this channel incremental,” ask “have we actually cracked it” — creative, audience, frequency, window.

Triangulate, and expect disagreement. Use MMM, attribution and incrementality together; treat conflicting signals as information, not as proof one is broken.

Prioritize variance and recency over years of history. Start measuring now, accept wider uncertainty early, and set a baseline you can improve.

Treat the MMM as a forecast. Document your assumptions, prefer short horizons with pulse-ups, and re-test incrementality every ~6 months while recalibrating quarterly.

Keep watering the brand. Invest continuously to offset decay, and sell it internally as protection against rising CAC at higher volumes.

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